Host – Grace Jennings-Edquist: [00:00:05] Business leaders need to evolve with the times. So this week’s episode is all about rethinking old ways of doing things. From time management advice to types of energy, we’ll start by hearing from productivity expert Donna McGeorge, who explains why classic time management advice often fails busy leaders and what works instead. Then, Agile Energy CEO Jack Kapoor unpacks the business case for solar and batteries. From SoundCartel, I’m Grace Jennings-Edquist, and this is Business Essentials.
Why traditional time management advice often fails busy leaders and what works instead
Our first guest is time management expert, best selling author and speaker Donna McGeorge. In this conversation, Donna unpacks why traditional time management advice often collapses under constant interruptions and unexpected demands. She also shares practical alternatives, Including shifting from rigid schedules to flexible systems and using brain dumps instead of overwhelming to do lists. Donna’s message is clear being busy is not a badge of success, and she should know she’s worked with executives across many industries. I started the interview by asking Donna what she sees as the fundamental flaw in traditional time management advice for senior leaders.
Donna McGeorge: [00:01:21] Traditional advice assumes that people have full control over everything that happens in their lives, and it assumes that on a given work day, a leader has full control over what’s going to happen in that day. But it just doesn’t, you know? In fact, the amount of times I’ve said to people, how often does something unexpected happen? And they go like every day. And I’m like, well, then how often do you allow for that? And they often say never. So they follow the traditional model that says, you know, block things in your diary, set things out, carve out time, do the things. And they’re very structured. Have three goals for the day, and yet invariably 1 or 2 things will go wrong, and they’ve got zero capacity to accommodate when something doesn’t quite go right. And that’s why they end up overwhelmed, out of control and, you know, working late at night.
Host – Grace Jennings-Edquist: [00:02:13] It is so relatable. I’m sorry to say. So why do things like to do lists, calendars and productivity apps, all of those kind of regular tools? Why do they often fail leaders at the top, even though they seem to be the most widely recommended type of tools?
Donna McGeorge: [00:02:28] Well, it kind of depends on the tool. So first of all, to do lists, I’m actually more of a fan of a brain dump than a to do list. So what often happens is that we end up with a lot of things in our head. We carry a lot of stuff, and I think it was another author in productivity, uh, said that the human mind is for having ideas, not storing them. And so what happens is we try to store things and we think doing a to do list is enough, but we still keep carrying extra things. Um, sometimes my personal life, just generally. So I encourage leaders to do a brain dump takes about five minutes. Just offload everything that’s on your mind, not in a to do list, just what’s on your mind to clear it out of your head, and then then later on, put it into whatever system you want to use. And the second thing I’ll say is productivity apps. I call them like digital duct tape. They work for a little while, but they do require a little bit of consistency. They’re very different for every person. There’s not one app that’s going to work for everyone. And certainly in a neurodivergent world, we’ve got people who focus differently, see the world differently, think differently. And so to say that there’s one app that’s going to be amazing, but I am a huge fan of systems. Now, whether you want to say that we’re just, you know, mincing words here. So no matter what your world is like, having a system to manage what you do is what’s most important. So I personally have a system that I use my calendar to make it work for me. I know other people have whiteboards up on the wall is the system that they use. So provided you have a system irrespective of what it is, that would be my advice around that.
Host – Grace Jennings-Edquist: [00:04:06] No, I love that. And look, I’m glad you brought that up about neurodiversity as well. And certainly I’ve been seeing and reading resources about, for example, ADHD traits in leaders. And it’s good to acknowledge that not the same thing works for all Neurotypes. So yeah, thank you for raising that. You often talk about shifting from managing time to managing focus, energy or choices. Can you unpack what actually works better in practice?
Donna McGeorge: [00:04:30] Again, you know, let’s just assume diversity in here. And so the body is designed to be doing different things at certain times of day. And it’s largely related to our internal systems. And, you know, everything from digesting food to sleeping, you know, is all regulated when we’re in good shape and when our body is being regulated as it’s supposed to. And so I always talk about, rather than watching the clock on the wall in a traditional 9 to 5 kind of situation, I say pay attention to the clock in your body, because there are certain times of day where it’s better to do certain things. And so the mornings for many of us is when we’re more mentally alert. And so we should be doing the things that require high mental alertness or attention or focus, and then leave the more routine things to the afternoon or evening. So yes, it is about managing energy and I’m all about making sure we have the right energy. And it is also about doing the things at the right time of day to match what your body and brain is ready to be doing.
Host – Grace Jennings-Edquist: [00:05:31] And that’s quite revolutionary for many people who might have, you know, spent years seeing advice of like, you’ve got to wake up at 5 a.m. and eat the frog first or whatever that saying is.
Donna McGeorge: [00:05:41] That’s such a bro thing, don’t you think?
Host – Grace Jennings-Edquist: [00:05:43] Yes, I think it is. I often have looked at that advice and thought, is that a bit gendered? And also, do these people have any caring responsibilities? Because that would be great if I could just jump out of bed and do five hours of work without having to put breakfast on the table and do a school run. But what if you have to accommodate that kind of thing as well?
Donna McGeorge: [00:05:59] Well, first of all, I assume it’s a bloke that’s written it because usually it’s a guy. It’s all the it’s what I call the broad activity movement that talks about getting up at 430 in the morning and doing five hours work before the rest of us have even started. And then I think, you know, there are other things I’m all for. If you want to be up early in the morning, go for it. I personally am an early riser, but it’s usually I’m awake about 530, but I don’t get out of bed. I kind of lie there. I’ll meditate. Sometimes I’ll get up and then I’ll meditate or whatever, and I’m typically at my desk ready to start work at 8:00. Uh, which again, for some people is early, but that’s because I know my best and most productive hours are between 8 and 10. They’re my best two hours of the day. And so when I hear these other things, I think that’s a system that works for that individual. But it may not work for everyone. And so I think the smart thing to do is to recognize What is my best two hours of the day for me? It happens to be between 8 and 10. For others, it could be between 1 and 3. Go figure. But figure out your best two hours and protect that to do some solid work. And this idea of getting up at the crack of dawn, if that works for you. All power to you. I’m more into. Have you had a decent night’s sleep? Have you had a decent amount of food in the day and managed to get the right quality food in your system? Have you managed to move your body in some way during the day? And for most people that’s. I think that’s enough.
Host – Grace Jennings-Edquist: [00:07:21] Right? Is a big question. And my final one I have planned. If a busy leader can unlearn just one piece of classic time management advice tomorrow, what should it be? And maybe what should replace it if we haven’t already covered that?
Donna McGeorge: [00:07:34] I think it’s this notion that busy and urgent makes me important, or it’s some kind of evidence that I’m succeeding. I’d love for leaders to really dig deep on defining for themselves what success is, because I just think we’ve watched success for so long, be this, you know, work hard, go hard, work long hours, accumulate stuff. And then I suppose when maybe it’s my age, but once I get to my age, I’m thinking, eh, I don’t need the stuff. I don’t need the things. What I value more is my time and my energy and where I want to spend that. And so this notion that busy and urgent is worn like a badge of honor, and that you don’t have to be 100% on 100% of the time.
Host – Grace Jennings-Edquist: [00:08:22] That was time management expert, best selling author and speaker Donna McGeorge.
Is your business keeping up with the renewables transition?
Now to rethinking renewable energy in the workplace. Jack Kapoor is CEO of Sydney based solar energy company Agile Energy. He joins me to explain why energy is no longer just an overhead cost, but a strategic lever for business performance. Jack’s company offers solar and batteries for business, and one thing agile does is setting businesses up to sell stored power back so businesses can become energy suppliers. I started the interview by asking Jack, what does that actually look like in practice?
Jack Kapoor: [00:09:04] From a practical point of view and from simplifying this for a non-energy person, I think most of the businesses buy their electricity from grid at different prices. Under our model, what we do is we install solar and batteries for these businesses, and we allow them to sell the energy back to the businesses under what we call power Purchase Agreement or PPA. The logic is fairly simple. The business is really not buying an equipment. They are buying a methodology to buy cheaper energy and a more stable energy for their own side. Batteries is where the flexibility comes in. When the businesses want to use the energy they store it generated with our low cost solar, and then discharge it when the grid prices are higher, or if the network are constrained. In a lot of cases, the flexibility also allow them to support the grid and sell the energy back into the grid. But primary value for the customer is the cost reduction and obviously risk management. I think to simplify, the takeaway would be that we are not trying to set up every business as an energy trader, we are looking a better way that people can buy energy, use it from the solar on their own side, use it with the batteries and they do it without any capital investment.
Host – Grace Jennings-Edquist: [00:10:21] Got it. No. Thank you for outlining that. Just to draw out a little bit more about the model. So who owns what, who takes the risk and how does the business get paid?
Jack Kapoor: [00:10:30] Yeah. So in most cases, agile will own finance and operate the solar and battery systems. The challenging part always has been who puts the capital forward. And we understand that businesses do not have free capital to manage it. We also realized that we are an expert from a technology point of view, the markets and the compliance point of view. So we take all of that risk with us. Our financing is supported by federal government through the Clean Energy Finance Corporation or CFC, and some private investors as well. And the purpose of the capital is to make sure that the asset and the market risk is not taken by the customer. Customer pays energy at an agreed rate, which is normally 30 to 40% lower than what they are paying on the energy today. And they also get an upside when the battery earns any revenue from any of the energy market or any of the grid services. So from a customer point of view, it is fairly simple. You are not putting any capital forward upfront. You are operating cost is reduced from 30 to 40%. And then if you’re selling the energy back into the grid, you are getting a profit. Share on that as well.
Host – Grace Jennings-Edquist: [00:11:37] And you mentioned before, you’re not trying to necessarily set every business up with this arrangement, what kinds of businesses are best positioned to do this?
Jack Kapoor: [00:11:46] The businesses, which are material and high energy user, normally benefits the most of it. A lot of businesses can set this up because across all different industries, people have a lot of meaningful energy use. I think looking at energy where it’s a high operating cost is always a good starting point. Industry wise, manufacturing, cold storage, aged care, healthcare, hospitals, any logistics, commercial properties, retail portfolios, shopping centres all of these businesses fit in quite simply where they can get a lot of value out of it. I think it’s more around not just a one time energy use, but also the consistent use of energy. We see a lot of businesses where they are energy intensive at particular periods in time. A lot of businesses operate in a 9 to 5 or during a particular time period on a day. And they can extract a lot of value out of the battery optimization in that as well. The strongest uptake isn’t coming from sustainability teams on on some of these things as well. I think it’s more from CFOs looking at whether energy is a big cost component and then how to reduce that cost while obviously opening up a new profit center.
Host – Grace Jennings-Edquist: [00:13:00] Yeah, sure. It makes sense. So if the economics stack up, why aren’t more businesses doing this already? What is the biggest blocker as you see it?
Jack Kapoor: [00:13:09] The biggest blocker we think is still the perception and understanding of the complexity. Historically, if anybody wants to buy a solar, it is always considered as a capital project. A lot of the early adopters, a lot of the businesses have spent money and bought systems outright, but they didn’t have a long term plan for its optimization, performance or even asset management. As the energy markets have become more volatile, the self-managed models have started to really show their limits. And this is where BBA has come in and removed that complexity. When businesses are not asked to put any money upfront. Also do not have any risk of making sure these things are connected and also do not have any risk of managing and maintaining this ownership model. Doesn’t stand in front of the PBS.
Host – Grace Jennings-Edquist: [00:13:57] You spoke to this a little bit before. Jack, what’s the most common misunderstanding business leaders have about solar or the energy transition?
Jack Kapoor: [00:14:06] The biggest misunderstanding is that this is driven from sustainability or a corporate mandate. In reality, the energy transition. Adoption of solar or batteries is purely a finance, economics, reliability and risk play. We see a lot of businesses who are looking to reduce their costs. We want to make sure that the cost reduction is sustainable and it is driven genuinely from green credentials. Electricity prices are very volatile. There is networks. The poles and wires are under a lot of pressure, and these costs are increasingly affecting the competitiveness and long term planning for all of these businesses. The biggest understanding, a lot of people who don’t understand the options available in the market is that they have to fork out a lot of capital to get any kind of foundational infrastructure. And this is where we want to let businesses know that there are options available, where they do not have to invest a significant amount of CapEx or to take a significant amount of risk to obtain a lower cost solution.
Host – Grace Jennings-Edquist: [00:15:11] So for businesses considering getting on board with solar energy and batteries, what are some risks they should be aware of and how should business leaders manage those risks?
Jack Kapoor: [00:15:21] I think the biggest risk that we see with the businesses investing is putting their own capital without actually having a long term management strategy. Energy assets normally last, whether it is a solar or a battery, they last for 20 to 30 years, while 20 to 30 years investment can be made upfront. The markets, the tariff, the technology, the the way they are connected, a lot of that changes over a period of time. And the key risks are having a wrong design or a poor connection, which doesn’t work in a longer term. Having an asset where the performance continues to degrade over time without any active management or exposing to a market volatility, without actually having the right tools to set up for it, the way we help a lot of businesses to manage these risks through a power purchase agreement is actually having a partner who is invested in the performance. The PPA doesn’t allow the performance to drop, and there is clear accountability for output and availability. And obviously, the commercial outcomes which prioritize the protection first for the client. So it’s more around when it’s done really well then there is not very low risk. Solar is solar and batteries are pretty much a commodity now. And it’s more around how do you manage them from a 2030 year period, rather than getting it one off and forgetting about it?
Host – Grace Jennings-Edquist: [00:16:42] But before we wrap up, Jack, I wanted to ask if you could deliver one message to Australian business leaders about energy over the next five years. What is it and what should they focus on doing first?
Jack Kapoor: [00:16:53] I think the messaging is actually quite simple. Energy is no longer just a utility bill. It is actually a strategic input for the businesses. Over the next five years, it will be fair to say that the businesses which will perform best, there won’t be just the ones that are cheapest, the lowest energy cost. They will be the ones who will be stabilising the energy cost. Managing the volatility in the market, especially the businesses who have got multiple sites around the country, or they have got unique demand from energy from time to time. And to be fair, the first step isn’t about installing solar. It’s actually identifying a solution where the business capital can stay for the business and for its core purposes, and then looking at what is the best option available, where a partner is willing to take a risk, capital or technology, or making sure there is a long term certainty creating value.
Host – Grace Jennings-Edquist: [00:17:48] That was Jack Kapoor, CEO of Agile Energy. Thanks for joining us for this week’s episode. Follow Business Essentials Podcast across social media and head to www.BusinessEssentialsPodcast.au for more. Business Essentials is a SoundCartel podcast. Producers are Nick Schildberger, Nicole Goodman and myself. Technical production is by Pete Letts. I’m Grace Jennings-Edquist thanks for listening. We’ll bring you more business essentials next week.
