Host – Grace Jennings-Edquist: [00:00:05] Should your business be worried about “greenwashing”? And what does it really take to build a future-ready, people-first workplace culture? In this episode, two business thinkers tackle issues shaping the future of work and investment. Our first guest, Elio D’Amato of Enviro Invest, unpacks what greenwashing really is, why regulators are cracking down and how businesses can communicate environmental claims clearly, credibly and legally. Then we hear from leadership expert Mirjana Boznovska, founder and CEO of One Beyond Success, who looks ahead to the next decade and explains why the organizations that win will be the ones that build genuinely people first workplace cultures. From SoundCartel, I am Grace Jennings-Edquist, and this is Business Essentials.
What to know about greenwashing (and how to avoid it)
Our first guest is Elio D’Amato, Co-Founder and Executive Director of EnviroInvest. He’s here to talk us through greenwashing. You’ve probably heard that phrase – but what does that actually mean … and why does it matter? Elio outlines the industries most prone to greenwashing, and explains why regulators like ASIC and the ACCC have been cracking down. Elio also offers clear, practical tips for businesses to avoid unintentionally greenwashing. To kick things off, Elio tells me what the term actually means.
Elio D’Amato: [00:01:31] Greenwashing is marketing or communications that present an image of well, being more environmentally friendly than is justified by the facts, of course, and we get some common types, which is, you know, using vague or non verifiable claims. We also highlight minor environmental improvements. You know, we should be really looking at the big picture rather than the small little wins and presenting future targets as possible targets. But we’re not taking demonstrable steps towards achieving that goal into the near future and things like, you know, claims around recyclability of the product, also using green imagery and all that sort of things. All of that really leads to what greenwashing actually is.
Host – Grace Jennings-Edquist: [00:02:14] I’m wondering what kind of companies do we see engaging in this greenwashing, and why are they doing it?
Elio D’Amato: [00:02:19] Look, we’re more likely to see greenwashing in sectors which are very much heavily focused towards the consumer. We also look at the investment sector as well as, you know, regulatory sectors, where there’s a lot of pressure in that regard to demonstrate those environmental credentials. But, you know, things like, well, let’s just start with the elephant in the room, the big one, the energy and fossil fuel companies, of course, they may very well sell their green credentials yet be very large emitters themselves. Then, of course, we talk the financial services space and ESG or environmental and social governance. Investing is a big trend and commands a lot of money and our superannuation funds are looking towards that outcome. So therefore funds may be very well geared towards. Speaking in a language that they want to hear when their actions may very well be different. And we’ve had some high profile cases like ASIC has taken the likes of Vanguard as well as Mercer to court in regards to their claims of green, as it were, not being as true as what they actually are. Further on, we also look at manufacturing, such as retail consumer goods, for example, as well as, you know, various other fast moving goods, plastics and all the like, because obviously consumers, as it were, want to buy environmentally aware assets. And as a result of that, that may very well sway their purchasing decision. Fashion textiles is also another sector whereby we’ve seen a lot of, you know, this greenwashing focus as because the eco fibre, as it were, is definitely becoming a term that’s we’re very familiar with. And therefore as a result, it’s being watched quite closely. And then, of course, you’ve got your agricultural goods. And then to take it off, building construction materials, whereby again, very carbon intensive, but obviously moving more towards environmentally aware production methods, which has its drawbacks. You know, some successes and failures, of course, but very much in the eye of the regulators as they make sure that those companies stick true to form.
Host – Grace Jennings-Edquist: [00:04:26] What are the regulations around greenwashing and who is regulating it?
Elio D’Amato: [00:04:30] Well, look, it’s an interesting question because greenwashing is not a law in itself. So there’s no greenwashing law or statute, as it were, whereby we all adhere to and follow directly. It’s a bit of a mishmash. I mean, there’s consumer law whereby obviously we don’t want to talk the environment, we want to act the environment, and therefore we’re always aware as to where false and misleading claims that cause consumers to purchase assets that may not be necessarily or may not align with what they very well believe. Asic, the Australian Securities and Investment Commission. Well, they’ve taken a very harsh position in regards to a lot of corporate Australia around this idea of greenwashing. Again, as I spoke to, it’s very much an attractive thing, particularly for super funds and investors, as it were. And therefore we want to make sure that any one invested in that space is definitely, you know, walking the talk, as it were, and following through in regards to what their commitments are. And obviously, you know, they want to make sure that there’s no false or misleading claims there to garner investor interest, as it were.
Elio D’Amato: [00:05:38] We also have to ask the Consumer and Competition Commission, which has definitely taken up again, a lot of the mantle in regards to reducing the risk of these scurrilous claims, as it were. Look, they’ve done a number of internet sweeps, as it were, in order to, you know, get a shortlist of companies that they’ve got their eye on and they will continually monitor along with ASIC as well, in regards to their claims and make sure that they’re all fine. And then, of course, you know, they’ll look at various organizations which, uh, you know, have a certification status or, you know, many investors or many listeners will be aware of B Corp, for example. Well, making sure that their standards are rigorous and the like and therefore companies that adhere to those standards very much meet the standards required by the regulators here in Australia. So in some a mish mash in regards to trying to prevent, uh, greenwashing is basically the best way to describe it because there’s no specific greenwashing law in of itself.
Host – Grace Jennings-Edquist: [00:06:39] Why are regulators trying to take a line against greenwashing? Is it because it’s so common or, you know, some other reason?
Elio D’Amato: [00:06:45] The main reason why is obviously consumer protection and market integrity. Obviously, they want to make sure that they protect the consumer, that anyone who purchases something or that it is as off label as it were, in regards to what they do acquire in regards to any Potential investment and the like, or in whatever product they want, to make sure that they stand by what it is that the label says. They also want to prevent crowding out. So, you know, this is where, for example, a large company that has significant marketing clout may very well crowd out a company doing the actual right thing in order to achieve what it is that they say they want to achieve. So as a result of that, by using false and misleading claims, then they could potentially do that. So they want to avoid that as a process. You then have your various reputation and systematic risk. I mean, there’s nothing worse for a business than to come out and say you’re doing something that you’re actually not. That is obviously not great at all, or particularly if you read about it in the papers, rather than do the investigation yourself. Then there’s also various other legal issues. You’ve also got, you know, precedents. So hopefully the whatever penalties or imposts. And like I said, ASIC have clamped down quite heavily on the likes of Vanguard and Mercer at recent times.
Elio D’Amato: [00:08:04] That is, to act as a deterrent for others who may very well wish to use the term environmental or ESG loosely without actually backing up their claims and making sure that that solid. So that’s very important. And look, let’s face it, there’s evolving expectations from both the general public and investors as a whole to, I mean, once upon a time was novel. It was a great idea. And, you know, we all believed what it was they said in the headline. But when we scratch beneath the surface, then we want to know that they actually doing what they say. And very much we want to ensure that companies are doing that. And then obviously on the back of that, we want to be consistent so that when we do analyze a company, whether it’s company A or company B, that we’ve got a consistent outcome at the end of the day. So obviously they’re the types or they’re the reasons why we’re incurring this because, you know, look there’s going to be some pain. We know that. But I think it’s for the greater good in the long term. And once everyone gets comfortable and consistent in regards to its various standards and the like that are out there and the various protections, then we’ll feel a lot more comfortable investing in the space.
Host – Grace Jennings-Edquist: [00:09:16] Well, my last question is, I suppose, a bit of some practical takeaways for business owners and business leaders listening. What should businesses know about how to avoid greenwashing when they’re, say, offering or promoting sustainability related products?
Elio D’Amato: [00:09:28] Look, we can obviously dig a bit of a hole for ourselves in regards to the information, but, you know, big fan of the Kiss principle, the keep it simple, stupid, as they say. And obviously, you know, be accurate with what you say. Be specific as well as make sure that what you have is verifiable. So you know, if you’re going to use terms like eco or green or the like, then you want to make sure that you’re very much targeted in regards to what you say. And you also want to make sure that you can back it up. Because of course, if someone questions, then that’s when things get a little bit rough. Now, if you’re going to present future goals, that’s fine. Do so, but don’t say their present achievements. Okay. So if you’re going to say we’re going to cut emissions that’s great and that’s fine. But selling it as it’s going to happen without having the verified evidence or that we’re going to do it, that is a big no no, as it were. So if you’re going to make a claim in regards to a future goal, make sure it’s that and say how you’re going to get there. Also, discuss your boundaries and any limitations that you may have. Don’t worry, we’re all friends.
Elio D’Amato: [00:10:38] You can be open and honest in regards to your current position. Make sure you do that. Explain trade offs so that everyone knows. And that’ll be very important because of course, you know, no one thinks that. Oh, what a great idea of adding something. But inevitably we have to take something away. So be open with that. Ensure that, you know, as I said, make sure that they’re meaningful, okay? That what you say and that you’ve got everything in place. Again, Ghana is a bit of a dangerous word when it comes to environmental investing or ESG investing, as it were, and definitely something that the greenwashing gods take a very close look at. And if you can use the verified third party authentication, be it either, you know, software that you may very well purchase, or an organization that has the standards required in order to ensure that you are meeting those ESG requirements. Don’t be selective either, okay? I mean, it’s obvious we love cherry picking, but obviously we want to make sure that our approach is broad. So don’t focus or hone in on a specific individual thing. Look at it from the holistic point of view. That is very important. Also, you know, make sure that your images and anything you use in marketing is based in reality as well.
Elio D’Amato: [00:11:51] So don’t have I don’t know, uh, let’s say me being in the investment industry don’t have happy older people in, you know, being rained upon by dollar notes, for example, or $50 notes. It’s not achievable. There will always be a cut and thrust, no doubt in between marketing and what the reality is. And therefore, if you do choose to use imagery or the like, make sure that it does reflect what it is you want to do. And ultimately. Well, last thing is to make sure that your internal documentation is now pat, because of course it won’t be a problem until it is. Therefore, if you do get looked at by one of the regulators or the like, then you want to make sure that you’ve got a documented process which explains what it is you are currently trying to do, and therefore you can ultimately show them that that is the case and therefore receive a tick, as it were, in regards to that. And I suppose always, you know, keep your conservative hat on, don’t get prone to being too overly excited. And what you’ll find is you’ll be pretty much within the realms of what is required by the regulators.
Host – Grace Jennings-Edquist: [00:12:56] That was Elio D’Amato, co-founder and executive director of Enviro Invest.
Building a future-ready, people-first workplace culture
Now to the future of work. What will it really demand from leaders and organizations? Mirjana Boznovska has laid out a few suggestions in her new book, Future of Work: A blueprint. Mirjana, who’s also founder and CEO of One Beyond Success, explains how leadership is shifting from performance management to unlocking human potential. Drawing on more than 35 years of experience in people development, human behavior, and leadership, Mehana also argues that people first workplace cultures are no longer optional but essential. She begins by telling me what a people first workplace culture really is and why it matters.
Mirjana Boznovska: [00:13:44] It’s basically placing people at the heart of the organization, not as a one time imperative, but every day as part of their strategy. It’s not a soft skill. It’s an actual business imperative. And, you know, I think in the increasingly rapid world of work and dynamic, It’s crucial that we look beyond skills and strategy and look at how can we develop people beyond their capacity of skills and knowledge. So look at developing a greater self awareness, self responsibility and self leadership that enable them to own their role, but more importantly, just bring their individual best each and every day.
Host – Grace Jennings-Edquist: [00:14:28] I’d love to ask a little bit about what we can expect from workplaces going forward, because obviously your book is called Future of Work: A blueprint. What will the next decade of work demand from organisations?
Mirjana Boznovska: [00:14:40] It really is a mindset shift. So what we know is that the old paradigm is not working. And we know that because statistics show us that almost 80% of people are disengaged, and this costs somewhere in the $9.6 trillion. These statistics come from Gallup. We also know that 80% of workplaces are operating in our survival mode. So even the most well-resourced workplaces often are. Still the undercurrent of that is survival mode the fear of failure, fear of not being good enough, imposter syndrome, and all of these things impact how we show up. They impact the choices we make, they impact how we collaborate with others. And so there is a huge opportunity to redefine what that looks like. And at the heart of that is investing in people, investing in their internal growth. So they can obviously lead from that most authentic state and then be open to collaborations and value driven alignment with others.
Host – Grace Jennings-Edquist: [00:15:49] Now, we talked about what the next decade of work will demand from organisations. What do you think the next decade of work will demand from leaders?
Mirjana Boznovska: [00:15:56] It really evolves the scope of the leader, so the role evolves from performance management to really igniting potential at the source within each individual. And that’s a huge paradigm shift. I mean, it’s a huge mindset shift for the individual, for the team, for the organization and for the future of how the organization is going to navigate its workplace culture. And it’s very exciting because, you know, beyond the capacity of the KPIs, it’s stepping into each person, understanding their why and how their purpose contributes in the overall purpose and vision for the organization. So it really unlocks the infinite potential of the people, the culture, and the sustainable impact that the organization is making beyond just profit and bottom line. So it’s very exciting. I think time frame to be in. And the exciting thing is that the future of work is not a distant concept. It’s happening now and it’s happening in real time, and it really is asking us to look at four defining principles. One is sustainable leadership. And what does that look like? Again, igniting the potential within the source, within each person rather than just an overall, you know, surface level initiative. It’s asking us to look at sustainable well-being. So well-being that, you know, ignites a state of wellness at every level of the organization and every generation. And it also looks at connection in an increasing AI driven world, particularly behind computer screens. How can we remain connected to one another on a deeper level? And the fourth one is business as a force for good, for the greater good, sustainable impact, rather than just profit and bottom line. So these four principles are what’s going to drive the future of work and is definitely embedded in the book, but also in the principles of what we’re driving at. One Beyond Success.
Host – Grace Jennings-Edquist: [00:18:08] Against this context that you’ve just laid out, what are your top tips for business leaders to really prepare for this next decade of work?
Mirjana Boznovska: [00:18:15] Yeah, that’s a really important one. And you’re going to notice from the tips that I give, it’s got nothing to do with the doing. It’s got nothing to do with, you know, your KPIs or, or your morning routines, which are great to have, but they’re very much a personalized thing. The tips I’m going to give you are around the being. So leadership as we mentioned, the leadership role is evolving beyond just performance. It’s beyond a position and title. It’s really a state of being. So the first tip is be courageous, be courageous to challenge the status quo and to challenge business as usual. You know, step out of that paradigm of this is how we’ve done it all around here, and look at the opportunities that are going to elevate, you know, team members beyond their role. The second one is be open. Be open to new perspectives. To think outside the box. Be open to perspectives that come from team members. So of course, to be proactive in that sense, to lead from authenticity and obviously build these cultures of trust and transparency. And the next one is think expansively, be open to think expansively.
Mirjana Boznovska: [00:19:35] Because when you do that, you recognize that your role as a leader is not to have all the answers, but to really harness the wisdom of the group and how to extract that information and knowledge from those around us, because, you know, we’re better and stronger together. The fourth one is to really be the change you want to experience at work and in your culture. So it starts with the leader to steer the ship, but it doesn’t end there because it’s heavy lifting when the leader has to think that it’s their role to, you know, steer the ship. Yes. But also it takes everybody’s input to cultivate a culture of trust, openness. So be the change, but be inspired to ignite that within others. And the fifth one would be be kind. Be kind to yourself and others, because it’s not about perfection. We don’t always get it right, but every day is an opportunity to step more into that authentic self and to deepen our practices of self-awareness, self-responsibility, and leading from within. So yeah, just just embody that. It’s an embodiment rather than a state of skill set.
Host – Grace Jennings-Edquist: [00:20:54] I’ll move on to my final question, which is about how can leaders activate self-determined motivation and values driven collaboration specifically around the science of sustainable motivation? I wonder if you could speak to that a little bit.
Mirjana Boznovska: [00:21:08] Yeah. This is something that I get really excited about. I am really excited about the science behind all of this. As I said, you know, in my 35 plus years, I’ve witnessed this and experienced this in real time and, you know, the practice of it. But when it actually links back to the science behind it, it’s really empowering and grounding. And I think a first step for leaders is to really understand what motivates their people, what motivates their people beyond just surface level initiative. But what is actually the motivation that inspires sustainable change and impact and transformation? And so the theory behind this and the leading theory in the human motivation is self-determination theory. Jesse and Ryan are the authors of that theory, and it’s what the One Blueprint is based on this science of motivation. And what it says is that as humans, we are motivated to be our best when three core psychological needs are met. The first one is autonomy, and it’s feeling that sense of freedom to choose to make the power of choice and to align our unique blueprint of who we are with our environment and what we do. The second one is to feel a sense of relatedness or connection. So connection to our peers, to our roles, to, you know, the wider stakeholders. And the third one is the competence feeling competent and accomplished in who we are and the delivery of that in our own personal lives, but also in the work. So when those core psychological needs of autonomy, connection and competence are met, we become self-driven. And this is what builds sustainable motivation, and it also is what deepens our engagement. It’s also where we become aligned with our purpose and meet those sustainable outcomes. And these core psychological needs are embedded in the one blueprint, which is, you know, the lived experience in workplace culture.
Host – Grace Jennings-Edquist: [00:23:24] That was Mirjana Boznovska, founder and CEO of One Beyond Success. Thanks for joining us for this week’s episode. Follow Business Essentials Podcast across social media and head to www.BusinessEssentialsPodcast.au for more. Business Essentials is a SoundCartel podcast. Producers are Nick Schildberger, Nicole Goodman and myself. Technical production is by Pete Letts. I’m Grace Jennings-Edquist thanks for listening. We’ll bring you more business essentials next week.
